Things I think about (Avengers-themed)
Jul. 26th, 2012 11:24 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
ingvildA couple of things I wonder about, as well as a few head-canon things.
1. This is sort of inspired by a comment I read that pointed out that even if Sif had to struggle against a sexist society in order to be allowed to be a warrior, these guys are really, really old. It could have happened a long time ago.
I'm wondering if one can extend that to Loki's comment about the Jotnar being "the monsters parents tell their children about". Maybe they did, when Thor and Loki were kids. It was right after the war, it makes sense. But telling the same scary stories for a thousand years?
Which sort of leads to "the average Asgardian is less worried about this than Loki thinks", which I kinda want to incorporate in a fic.
I also kinda want political scientist Darcy interviewing Sif, who kickstarted her own sexual revolution seven hundred years ago and is alive to tell how she thinks it's gone, for her MA thesis. Or possibly her PhD thesis, analyzing the social politics of this alien realm they're suddenly allied with.
2. What, exactly, is Loki going to be tried for? I've seen people argue that he was justified in sending the Destroyer after Sif and the Warriors Three, because they'd committed treason. The problem is that he DOESN'T send it after them. He says, "Ensure my brother does not return. Destroy everything." He sends it after Thor, who was already serving out his punishment, and everything around Thor, i.e. the people and buildings of Puente Antiguo. And they hadn't done anything to him or Asgard.
From what we see, Asgard seems to have a "who hits first" policy. Don't interfere with other realms, but you're allowed to retaliate (within reason, as Thor found out) or step in if one realm invades another. They also seem hesitant to actually use those weapons of mass destruction they have.
So I'm guessing that Loki is going to be tried for two accounts of power abuse when he was on the throne - sending the Destroyer to Midgard and setting the Bifrost on Jotunheim - and for starting the invasion of Midgard. He's not going to be tried for trying to usurp power, because with Odin out of commission and Thor banished, the throne was his by right. He just didn't do very well with his power.
Headcanon stuff (I'm not sure how much that differs from my speculations, actually, but here we go):
1. Under all the bluster, Thor genuinely cares about other people. Underneath the seeming concern, Loki only really cares about himself. And THAT'S why Thor was being named heir.
2. Idunn doesn't offer an apple to Jane because Jane is Thor's lady-love. She offers an apple to Jane because Jane fixed the Bifrost, and Idunn has a touch of foresight and can see that Jane will do well for Asgard in the future.
3. Jane proposed to Thor, not the other way around.
4. When discussing their upcoming nuptials, Jane started in on how she was keeping her own name because of publications and third-wave feminism and...and then she trailed off in the face of Thor's confusion, and it became clear that Asgard, like the Norse of old and the Icelandic of now, doesn't have the tradition of the wife taking her husband's name.
5. When their son is born, Jane starts in on how she doesn't want him to be named Mode (mythological Thor's son with Sif) or Magni (mythological Thor's son with Jarnsaxa) because dammit, just because the father is the same doesn't mean the son is the same because the mother matters, dammit, and she just pushed that huge-ass baby out of her (baby-boy takes after Thor in size. Poor Jane), so she gets to decide this.
Thor has accepted that there are some things that matter to Jane even if he doesn't quite understand why, and just offers up Erik or Sigurd as alternative names.
6. Thor used to come down to Midgard more often in his youth. Jane is not the first human he's been in love with.
He stopped after his last mortal beloved died during the Black Plague.
6a. Thor begged Eir to try to heal his mortal beloved. It didn't work. Asgardian healing methods are meant for them, and mortals don't have a robust enough constitution for it.
6aa. Healing stones only work on injuries, not diseases, infections or poisons. Healing stones work on mortals, though.
7. Æsir is a species. Asgardian is used for people who live in Asgard. Mostly Æsir, but also some Vanir and some others.
8. When Thanos shows up to collect, Odin tells him that "lest you wish to meet your lady in a more direct manner than you had originally envisioned, stop talking about my children".
8a. Later that day, Thor visited Loki with a present. It was the Chitauri spokesman's head.
9. The Asgard-Vanaheim war ended because the Æsir, as the invading force, decided that the Vanir had suffered too heavy casualties.
9a. It was Thor's first war. He flooded one agricultural area, caused a drought in another, and was so horrified by the resulting food shortage that he spent the next twenty years walking around Vanaheim setting the weather patterns back to rights.
10. Loki was scared of thunder when he was little. Thor, who could sense the thunderstorms long before he could control them, would interrupt playtime and say they had to go home without an explanation if it happened during the day, and cajole his way into staying in Loki's room if it happened at night.
Loki pretended to be scared of thunder for years after he stopped being scared. He just liked having his big brother to himself.
11. Asgardian aging is largely connected to state of mind. Thor and Loki aged into adolescence at almost a mortal rate, because they were stimulated by one another. Others have stayed at toddler stage for decades.
12. Because they live for so long, days out of the ordinary leaves an even bigger impression on immortal people than they do on mortals. That's why Thor was so affected by his three days on Earth.
13. Jotunheim could have rebuilt any time. Laufey deliberately played up the significance of the Cradle so his people would stay antagonistic towards Asgard.
14. When Loki fell, he saw a thousand different realities, and in none of them did he have a happy ending. That's why he turned so extreme.
15. Frigga can lift Mjolnir.
15a. Jane could have lifted Mjolnir, it's just that it was forged in the heart of a dying star and is damned heavy even without the enchantment.
16. When the Avengers visit Asgard, only Steve is strong enough to open the doors. Those doors are made by and for people who're a touch stronger than humans, after all.
16a. Frigga gave Jane some bracelets to increase her strength so she wouldn't need people to open the doors for her.
16aa. If Jane had tried to lift Mjolnir with those on, she could have done it. She never tried.
17. Not Asgard-related - shock! Steve and Thor have a better reaction to JARVIS than Bruce and Clint - Steve is already living in the future, what's a living house to the fact that they've been to the moon? And Thor has a semi-sentient magical hammer and comes from a place where science and magic is the same thing, disembodied voices that open doors for you actually seems normal to him. While Clint and Bruce are SUDDENLY in sci-fi-world.
17a. Natasha was freaked when she first heard JARVIS during her time undercover as Natalie Rushman, but masked it well. She didn't warn Clint because she thought he needed some benevolent trolling.
1. This is sort of inspired by a comment I read that pointed out that even if Sif had to struggle against a sexist society in order to be allowed to be a warrior, these guys are really, really old. It could have happened a long time ago.
I'm wondering if one can extend that to Loki's comment about the Jotnar being "the monsters parents tell their children about". Maybe they did, when Thor and Loki were kids. It was right after the war, it makes sense. But telling the same scary stories for a thousand years?
Which sort of leads to "the average Asgardian is less worried about this than Loki thinks", which I kinda want to incorporate in a fic.
I also kinda want political scientist Darcy interviewing Sif, who kickstarted her own sexual revolution seven hundred years ago and is alive to tell how she thinks it's gone, for her MA thesis. Or possibly her PhD thesis, analyzing the social politics of this alien realm they're suddenly allied with.
2. What, exactly, is Loki going to be tried for? I've seen people argue that he was justified in sending the Destroyer after Sif and the Warriors Three, because they'd committed treason. The problem is that he DOESN'T send it after them. He says, "Ensure my brother does not return. Destroy everything." He sends it after Thor, who was already serving out his punishment, and everything around Thor, i.e. the people and buildings of Puente Antiguo. And they hadn't done anything to him or Asgard.
From what we see, Asgard seems to have a "who hits first" policy. Don't interfere with other realms, but you're allowed to retaliate (within reason, as Thor found out) or step in if one realm invades another. They also seem hesitant to actually use those weapons of mass destruction they have.
So I'm guessing that Loki is going to be tried for two accounts of power abuse when he was on the throne - sending the Destroyer to Midgard and setting the Bifrost on Jotunheim - and for starting the invasion of Midgard. He's not going to be tried for trying to usurp power, because with Odin out of commission and Thor banished, the throne was his by right. He just didn't do very well with his power.
Headcanon stuff (I'm not sure how much that differs from my speculations, actually, but here we go):
1. Under all the bluster, Thor genuinely cares about other people. Underneath the seeming concern, Loki only really cares about himself. And THAT'S why Thor was being named heir.
2. Idunn doesn't offer an apple to Jane because Jane is Thor's lady-love. She offers an apple to Jane because Jane fixed the Bifrost, and Idunn has a touch of foresight and can see that Jane will do well for Asgard in the future.
3. Jane proposed to Thor, not the other way around.
4. When discussing their upcoming nuptials, Jane started in on how she was keeping her own name because of publications and third-wave feminism and...and then she trailed off in the face of Thor's confusion, and it became clear that Asgard, like the Norse of old and the Icelandic of now, doesn't have the tradition of the wife taking her husband's name.
5. When their son is born, Jane starts in on how she doesn't want him to be named Mode (mythological Thor's son with Sif) or Magni (mythological Thor's son with Jarnsaxa) because dammit, just because the father is the same doesn't mean the son is the same because the mother matters, dammit, and she just pushed that huge-ass baby out of her (baby-boy takes after Thor in size. Poor Jane), so she gets to decide this.
Thor has accepted that there are some things that matter to Jane even if he doesn't quite understand why, and just offers up Erik or Sigurd as alternative names.
6. Thor used to come down to Midgard more often in his youth. Jane is not the first human he's been in love with.
He stopped after his last mortal beloved died during the Black Plague.
6a. Thor begged Eir to try to heal his mortal beloved. It didn't work. Asgardian healing methods are meant for them, and mortals don't have a robust enough constitution for it.
6aa. Healing stones only work on injuries, not diseases, infections or poisons. Healing stones work on mortals, though.
7. Æsir is a species. Asgardian is used for people who live in Asgard. Mostly Æsir, but also some Vanir and some others.
8. When Thanos shows up to collect, Odin tells him that "lest you wish to meet your lady in a more direct manner than you had originally envisioned, stop talking about my children".
8a. Later that day, Thor visited Loki with a present. It was the Chitauri spokesman's head.
9. The Asgard-Vanaheim war ended because the Æsir, as the invading force, decided that the Vanir had suffered too heavy casualties.
9a. It was Thor's first war. He flooded one agricultural area, caused a drought in another, and was so horrified by the resulting food shortage that he spent the next twenty years walking around Vanaheim setting the weather patterns back to rights.
10. Loki was scared of thunder when he was little. Thor, who could sense the thunderstorms long before he could control them, would interrupt playtime and say they had to go home without an explanation if it happened during the day, and cajole his way into staying in Loki's room if it happened at night.
Loki pretended to be scared of thunder for years after he stopped being scared. He just liked having his big brother to himself.
11. Asgardian aging is largely connected to state of mind. Thor and Loki aged into adolescence at almost a mortal rate, because they were stimulated by one another. Others have stayed at toddler stage for decades.
12. Because they live for so long, days out of the ordinary leaves an even bigger impression on immortal people than they do on mortals. That's why Thor was so affected by his three days on Earth.
13. Jotunheim could have rebuilt any time. Laufey deliberately played up the significance of the Cradle so his people would stay antagonistic towards Asgard.
14. When Loki fell, he saw a thousand different realities, and in none of them did he have a happy ending. That's why he turned so extreme.
15. Frigga can lift Mjolnir.
15a. Jane could have lifted Mjolnir, it's just that it was forged in the heart of a dying star and is damned heavy even without the enchantment.
16. When the Avengers visit Asgard, only Steve is strong enough to open the doors. Those doors are made by and for people who're a touch stronger than humans, after all.
16a. Frigga gave Jane some bracelets to increase her strength so she wouldn't need people to open the doors for her.
16aa. If Jane had tried to lift Mjolnir with those on, she could have done it. She never tried.
17. Not Asgard-related - shock! Steve and Thor have a better reaction to JARVIS than Bruce and Clint - Steve is already living in the future, what's a living house to the fact that they've been to the moon? And Thor has a semi-sentient magical hammer and comes from a place where science and magic is the same thing, disembodied voices that open doors for you actually seems normal to him. While Clint and Bruce are SUDDENLY in sci-fi-world.
17a. Natasha was freaked when she first heard JARVIS during her time undercover as Natalie Rushman, but masked it well. She didn't warn Clint because she thought he needed some benevolent trolling.
no subject
Date: 2012-07-28 10:52 am (UTC)Especially 16 - I can totally imagine that happening! Also 17 and 17a - LOL
I also completely subscribe to the fanon that is "Tony gives everyone of the Avengers their own penthouse suite in his tower so they can all be together" because it makes for some really cute fic. :~D
I don't entirely agree with 1 - I'd say Loki cares about himself first and then, if he doesn't imagine having being wronged by them, he cares about others. I.e. I genually believe he still loves Thor as a brother and Odin as a father, but that it's overshadowed by their (perceived) slights against him.
I always was mostly fond of the myths where it's "oh that wacky Loke, what is he up to now?" as opposed to the "I'll be fighting against you in Ragnarok anyway, so I might as well kill Baldur because I can". So I'm slightly biased. And will be reading Edda when I come home.
So yeah. Where are you now, anyway?
no subject
Date: 2012-07-28 10:54 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-07-28 02:26 pm (UTC)I'll be moving on Tuesday.
no subject
Date: 2012-07-29 08:57 pm (UTC)Good luck with the move from me and mum!